Doctor, Your Hands Are Going To Save My Hands Today. Artist Jennifer Hunter
Jennifer Hunter is a nationally recognized award winning artist known for her sensitive storytelling with the use of her paintbrush. Her artwork comes to life telling a story the viewer finds interesting but also realistic. Recently she found herself facing one of her greatest fears. Surgery. She might never paint again due to a spinal cord injury.
Transcript
Your positive, positive imprint.
Speaker:Stories are everywhere.
Speaker:People and their positive actions inspire positive achievements.
Speaker:Your PI could mean the world to you.
Speaker:Get ready for your positive
Catherine:imprint.
Catherine:Hello, this is Catherine, your host of the podcast, your positive imprint, the variety
Catherine:show featuring people all over the world whose positive achievements inspire positive thought
Catherine:and action.
Catherine:Exceptional people rising to the challenge.
Catherine:Music by the talented Chris Nole., some of my favorites are lay across my piano.
Catherine:Hambone boogie wide horizon, life on Mars, Gumbolaya and of course, elevated intentions.
Catherine:Learn more about Chris at ChrisNole.com c H R I S N O L E.
Catherine:Follow me on Facebook and Instagram, your positive imprint connect with me on LinkedIn.
Catherine:Check out my YouTube channel, your positive imprint or listen from the
Catherine:podcast platform you're listening from now.
Catherine:Or of course, apple podcast, Google podcast.
Catherine:IiHeart radio, Spotify, Amazon music, pod bean, or.
Catherine:Any podcast platform, and don't forget to share your favorite episodes with friends and family.
Catherine:Under that play button on my website, yourpositiveimprint.com is a share button.
Catherine:Click that button then share.
Catherine:Most podcast platforms do allow you to sharae.
Catherine:Also my new shop with over 20 items is now open yourpositiveimprint.com and click on SHOP in the menu.
Catherine:Right now, it is FREE SHIPPING WORLDWIDE.
Catherine:And I have rise to the challenge, shirts and mugs and your positive imprint items, even baby and youth,
Catherine:the baby item logo says I'm mommy's positive imprint.
Catherine:And of course I'm, daddy's positive imprint.
Catherine:Well, happy shopping.
Catherine:I'm excited to announce the
Jennifer Hunter:winners of the recovery and healing using lyrics, contest, drawing for a hoodie.
Jennifer Hunter:The winner of the Rawiri James unlock your potential hoodie is Marianne of the United States
Jennifer Hunter:and the winner of the Christopher Marciano.
Jennifer Hunter:I sing my pain sing my happiness hodie is Gaelin of Germany.
Jennifer Hunter:Congratulations.
Jennifer Hunter:Now listen to this episode, featuring me.
Jennifer Hunter:Jennifer Hunter and my recovering and healing using a paint brush
Catherine:Jennifer Hunter is a nationally recognized award winning artist.
Catherine:She's known for her sensitive storytelling of American history with the use of her paint brush.
Catherine:Many of her stories are of the American west.
Catherine:Her animal paintings are exceptional.
Catherine:And I find it interesting that she took anatomy classes to help her understand the movement of
Catherine:not just people, but the animals that she paints.
Catherine:They do come to life.
Catherine:And that is her goal.
Catherine:To tell a story with figures that the viewer finds interesting, but also realistic.
Catherine:In fact, her paintings have been in multiple shows and exhibitions, including the visitor
Catherine:center at the grand canyon, the museum of Western art in Texas, and a permanent collection
Catherine:at Rocky mountain national park in Colorado.
Catherine:Jennifer always felt courageous to share her stories through her art.
Catherine:She put herself out there for the world to see, and she felt no fear, but one day she found herself
Catherine:facing a different kind of threat and a different set of positive imprints that she would be making.
Catherine:Jennifer Hunter
Catherine:I am so pleased that we were able to finally connect, welcome to the show.
Jennifer Hunter:Well, thank you, Catherine.
Jennifer Hunter:It's really nice to be here.
Catherine:It's great.
Catherine:I'm looking at this beautiful you and this beautiful background.
Catherine:I know you paint horses and I see horses back there behind you.
Catherine:What part of the United States are you in?
Catherine:I'm in Illinois,
Jennifer Hunter:Northern Illinois in the suburbs of Chicago, actually.
Jennifer Hunter:I began in Indiana.
Jennifer Hunter:My folks moved to Illinois when I was about nine.
Jennifer Hunter:And I've kind of been around here ever since.
Jennifer Hunter:Where I live right now I have the Fox river right outside there.
Jennifer Hunter:So we have wetlands behind the house and we've got Sandhill cranes and there's
Jennifer Hunter:actually an Eagle nest on the Fox river.
Jennifer Hunter:So I do see Eagles fly over the house.
Jennifer Hunter:Uh, we go kayaking.
Jennifer Hunter:It's kind of a neat place to live.
Catherine:Oh, absolutely.
Catherine:And some of those Sandhill cranes just might be some of ours from New Mexico when they migrate.
Catherine:I love the Sandhill cranes and the sounds.
Catherine:They make the calls.
Catherine:Yeah.
Jennifer Hunter:Yeah.
Jennifer Hunter:Yeah.
Jennifer Hunter:When you're walking around out there and you come face to face with what they're about four feet tall,
Catherine:have you ever painted
Jennifer Hunter:one?
Jennifer Hunter:I have, yeah, there's a painting actually, upstairs of Sandhill cranes dancing.
Catherine:And they do that.
Catherine:They do a beautiful life is grand, and I know we're still in the COVID, but you're finding
Catherine:time away from all of this with your painting.
Catherine:And I want to talk about why you chose the American history and Western art.
Jennifer Hunter:It's really about storytelling and exploring.
Jennifer Hunter:If you think about when you're a kid and all the things you would do to
Jennifer Hunter:explore and imagine you're someplace else
Jennifer Hunter:and if you start imagining you're someplace else in a different place in time, you can go there.
Jennifer Hunter:And I absolutely loved horses.
Jennifer Hunter:When I was a kid and when, where I grew up, there was a farm next door as the suburbs were being built.
Jennifer Hunter:So of course you always made friends with the kid that had the ponies and we rode all over the neighborhoods.
Jennifer Hunter:And historical imagery is a really good way to put a horse in a paintings
Jennifer Hunter:if you love painting horses there's all kinds of ways to do that.
Catherine:So when you're talking about different ways of doing that, you're
Catherine:talking about them with a different motion.
Catherine:So what can you, well, not
Jennifer Hunter:motion, but telling stories.
Jennifer Hunter:If we think about our American history, there's a hoof printed next to every footprint.
Catherine:Oh my gosh.
Jennifer Hunter:That's how this country was established.
Jennifer Hunter:Yes.
Jennifer Hunter:Go way back there weren't trains.
Jennifer Hunter:it took quite a while.
Jennifer Hunter:And then there were stage coaches, but there's horses.
Jennifer Hunter:There were covered wagons.
Jennifer Hunter:A lot of times those were pulled by oxen cause the horses were not strong enough for that.
Jennifer Hunter:So there's just, I mean, we would not be where we are now.
Jennifer Hunter:If there had not been horses,
Catherine:you tell these stories with such sensitivity and that's something that people do say about you
Catherine:is that you're sensitive with your storytelling.
Catherine:Is it because of the title that you choose or is it the colors of the painting that you've chosen?
Catherine:Why do you think people say that about you?
Jennifer Hunter:I become a voice for a lot of people who are long gone and it's a connection because
Jennifer Hunter:we, as Americans have this history and then our country was shaped by the people who came before us.
Jennifer Hunter:And in a way we do owe them a lot of gratitude for that, because everything we have was
Jennifer Hunter:built upon the foundation that they created.
Jennifer Hunter:And I pretty much do relate to the people I meet.
Jennifer Hunter:I have native American friends and they tell me their stories and they tell me their history.
Jennifer Hunter:And I really try to be honest to relay that in a way that they would appreciate.
Catherine:That defines you truly.
Catherine:So with what you just said, I would love for you to talk about two of your
Catherine:paintings, which have such a profound title.
Catherine:And this is a podcast so you will need to describe it for the listeners.
Catherine:So the first one is a century of wisdom in his eyes.
Jennifer Hunter:That is a portrait of chief David Bald Eagle.
Jennifer Hunter:And I feel very honored and privileged that he sat down with me like you're doing now.
Jennifer Hunter:And we recorded a conversation and that was a few years ago.
Jennifer Hunter:And he, since he has since passed away, but his story as an individual is actually pretty incredible because
Jennifer Hunter:he was born in a teepee and they went on Buffalo hunts.
Jennifer Hunter:He didn't speak English.
Jennifer Hunter:When he was a child, he spoke Lakota and he was raised by his grandmother.
Jennifer Hunter:He was related to, uh, and I'm losing the name now.
Jennifer Hunter:It's, it's an Indian chief who was in the battle of little big horn, but his life was incredible
Jennifer Hunter:because he had his native American background, but he was also a world war II veteran.
Jennifer Hunter:He was a paratrooper who landed at Normandy and he was actually left for dead.
Jennifer Hunter:And he was rescued by soldiers, British soldiers who realized he was alive and took
Jennifer Hunter:him to the hospital and he actually recovered.
Jennifer Hunter:So that alone is pretty amazing.
Jennifer Hunter:He's been a rodeo rider.
Jennifer Hunter:A race car driver.
Jennifer Hunter:And he did a lot of old Western movies like that they were doing in Hollywood back then.
Jennifer Hunter:And he was even in some movies with Marilyn Monroe.
Catherine:That's so interesting.
Catherine:And so you were able to tell his story in the title.
Catherine:How did you come up with that?
Jennifer Hunter:Because.
Jennifer Hunter:Over your lifetime and through all the experiences that you have, you learn a heck of a lot and
Jennifer Hunter:you can pass that onto the younger generations.
Jennifer Hunter:Hopefully people will listen to things like that, but to talk to him was just incredible.
Jennifer Hunter:We had such a connection and he was very close to 100.
Jennifer Hunter:He didn't quite make it to a hundred before he passed, but he was very close.
Jennifer Hunter:His eyes actually do tell a story.
Jennifer Hunter:I mean, you're speaking to him, but you feel a depth.
Jennifer Hunter:And the connection.
Jennifer Hunter:And after I sat down and we had that conversation, that long conversation, the next time I saw
Jennifer Hunter:him, he was driving in with this car two-ten and waving, wanted me to see him arriving.
Jennifer Hunter:And it was just funny.
Jennifer Hunter:Later his people would choose him to be their chief, not just of his tribe, but the leader
Jennifer Hunter:of all the indigenous tribes of the world.
Catherine:That is such a wonderful story.
Catherine:And you did take time to really reflect on what you wanted to call the painting.
Catherine:I'm going to kind of go off of what you just said about this gentlemen, you said that
Catherine:as we get older, we have wisdom to share.
Catherine:Now I'm paraphrasing what you said, and we go through experiences.
Catherine:We go through life.
Catherine:And so that brings me, before we get to that, painting that second painting.to your life.
Catherine:Because as a painter, you are obviously showing and sharing and inspiring others with these amazing
Catherine:positive imprints, through that sensitivity of storytelling of historical events or just the past,
Catherine:they don't have to be actual events, but of our past.
Catherine:And that's where your positive imprints are, but something happened to you
Catherine:that is so profound that changed you.
Catherine:This second painting called, lost and found is almost about you in
Jennifer Hunter:a sense.
Jennifer Hunter:Yeah, I was losing something very dear to me, and that was my gift and my
Jennifer Hunter:physical ability to create paintings.
Jennifer Hunter:And that happened because of an old traffic accident, I'd had a whiplash and it was 20 years earlier.
Jennifer Hunter:And I had told myself I was fine.
Jennifer Hunter:Right.
Jennifer Hunter:As we do.
Jennifer Hunter:Yes, yes.
Jennifer Hunter:Right.
Jennifer Hunter:You just kind of go along and you're doing your best you can.
Jennifer Hunter:But that came back to haunt me because what actually happened is is over time as you age, you can have
Jennifer Hunter:cracks open up in the discs within your spine and they start to herniate and rupture, and then they
Jennifer Hunter:start to collapse and your body tries to stabilize it.
Jennifer Hunter:So you start to grow bone spurs there, and all of that can go into your spinal cord
Jennifer Hunter:if it's within the central spinal canal.
Jennifer Hunter:And that's what happened to me.
Jennifer Hunter:So I was actually losing the ability to hold my arms up.
Jennifer Hunter:I mean my hand work so I could move my hands, but holding my arm up and
Jennifer Hunter:directing that's when I was losing.
Jennifer Hunter:So it meant things like driving a car, pushing a shopping cart were incredibly difficult.
Jennifer Hunter:I was having pain all over my body.
Jennifer Hunter:It was affecting my ability to walk because if you compress your spinal cord in your
Jennifer Hunter:neck, every signal that goes to the rest of your body goes through your neck.
Jennifer Hunter:And just depending on where it gets compressed.
Jennifer Hunter:And when you turn your head and the spinal cord is floating in there and fluid, and it just turns
Jennifer Hunter:and lands or whatever in a certain way, if that canal narrows, and you've got something grip in
Jennifer Hunter:your spinal cord, it's going to cause a problem.
Jennifer Hunter:And when this first started, the first set symptom I actually had was I had a pain in my ankle.
Jennifer Hunter:I turned my head.
Jennifer Hunter:I felt like a dog was biting my ankles.
Jennifer Hunter:Oh my goodness.
Jennifer Hunter:I turned my head back forward.
Jennifer Hunter:And it went away.
Jennifer Hunter:So I could turn it on and off.
Jennifer Hunter:I'm not, but as, as time progressed, things got worse.
Jennifer Hunter:I got more and more pains all over my body.
Jennifer Hunter:I'd have muscles jumping and doing different things like spasms.
Jennifer Hunter:Uh, I'd get bad headaches.
Jennifer Hunter:You get spasms in your neck and it's pulling on your, your spine and all, all those
Jennifer Hunter:muscles go up on the back of your head.
Jennifer Hunter:So you get horrible headaches, uh, even dizziness from that kind of stuff.
Jennifer Hunter:So I did see some spine surgeons and.
Jennifer Hunter:I saw locally, actually five different spine surgeons and none of them would help.
Jennifer Hunter:Wait,
Catherine:why was that?
Jennifer Hunter:Wow.
Jennifer Hunter:Well, according to what I have figured out is my presentation of symptoms was a little bit unusual
Jennifer Hunter:because when you've got pain all over your body, like in your feet, your arms, your legs, top of your
Jennifer Hunter:head, your back everywhere, it confuses the doctors.
Jennifer Hunter:Because they're looking at where the nerves come out of the spine, and those are all definitely mapped.
Jennifer Hunter:And there's something called a dermatome map, which shows that the problem I had was that whole big bundle.
Jennifer Hunter:That was the axons going down, that we're going to send signals out to all the nerves go up and down.
Jennifer Hunter:Your spine was getting squished..
Jennifer Hunter:And it's just depending on how it gets pushed or how it gets turned is what it's going to affect.
Jennifer Hunter:So I probably scared doctors out of helping me because those symptoms could
Jennifer Hunter:be, MS could be an inflammatory disease.
Jennifer Hunter:They always look for things like ALS those kinds of problems.
Jennifer Hunter:And I mean, let's face it.
Jennifer Hunter:Surgeons want to see a case that they can fix and have success.
Jennifer Hunter:They don't really want to take cases that might not have a good outcome.
Jennifer Hunter:So if they're unsure, they're more likely to pass.
Jennifer Hunter:It's not such a good thing for patients because patients get left behind and many of them don't know
Jennifer Hunter:why and don't know how to advocate for themselves.
Jennifer Hunter:So these are all things I had to learn how to do, even though I was scared to death.
Jennifer Hunter:When a doctor, a surgeon tells you, well, yes, you've got significant spinal cord compression
Jennifer Hunter:you need surgery, it gets your attention.
Jennifer Hunter:And then at that time I was also having dizziness and I actually had fallen over.
Jennifer Hunter:I had some vertigo and that's another thing that could be, it could be a spine problem, like aI had.
Jennifer Hunter:It could be so many other things that muddy the waters.
Jennifer Hunter:I would always kind of be looking for the next surgeon in case I got refused
Jennifer Hunter:because it was becoming a pattern.
Jennifer Hunter:And I decided I'd look at Mayo Clinic and I was looking at a surgeon, they're trying to match them
Jennifer Hunter:up to what I needed and what his interests were.
Jennifer Hunter:And I read their published papers of this particular surgeon, and he talks about leg pain.
Jennifer Hunter:He was a coauthor on a paper and talked about something called funicular pain.
Jennifer Hunter:I didn't know what that meant.
Jennifer Hunter:So I looked that up and funicular pain is a referred pain, which was exactly what I was having, where
Jennifer Hunter:there's compression of the spinal cord and it's causing the pain somewhere else in your body.
Jennifer Hunter:And they can't exactly trace it to where it is.
Jennifer Hunter:And I found because of that terminology, I found medical cases like mine that were written up in
Jennifer Hunter:literature, and I could understand what I was reading because I do also have a biology degree.
Jennifer Hunter:I did work in research at the university of Chicago for awhile, actually for a neuro anatomist.
Jennifer Hunter:That's interesting.
Jennifer Hunter:It is interesting.
Jennifer Hunter:And so I have some published work.
Jennifer Hunter:His name is on it, but I was his lab assistant.
Jennifer Hunter:So I did preparations of the slides for the microscope and did some darkroom work.
Jennifer Hunter:And I actually did do some drawings.
Jennifer Hunter:So my first published artwork actually is a science drawing.
Jennifer Hunter:So
Catherine:telling a story there,
Jennifer Hunter:but anyway, so I found this literature with this doctor's name on it.
Jennifer Hunter:So I wrote him a letter and I explained that I'd been turned down five times and a month later,
Jennifer Hunter:Mayo called and offered me an appointment.
Jennifer Hunter:The first day they were doing the testing.
Jennifer Hunter:And then you would meet the neurosurgeon on day number two.
Jennifer Hunter:So one of the things I did to cope, it's kind of hard to be a patient and go through the most painful
Jennifer Hunter:tasks, what those neurologists are going to do and I had started using my own artwork and music as coping
Jennifer Hunter:mechanisms, I thought I could be turned away again and I needed the doctor to understand what I needed to do.
Jennifer Hunter:So I took a real painting with me to Mayo, uh, which was the one called fresh horses.
Jennifer Hunter:So I, when I was going through the testing, I took what was hanging on the wall at Mayo in that
Jennifer Hunter:lab off the wall and I hung my painting there.
Jennifer Hunter:I could look at it and I could take myself there I had painted the painting.
Jennifer Hunter:I was really familiar with it.
Jennifer Hunter:I could take myself to another place in time, instead of thinking about what they were doing and it works.
Jennifer Hunter:Anybody can use visual image imagery.
Jennifer Hunter:You don't have to be an artist, so you can have a favorite place, a photograph.
Jennifer Hunter:You could remember a hike, anything.
Jennifer Hunter:You can think about a pet, you can take pictures with you.
Jennifer Hunter:All those strategies really work.
Jennifer Hunter:So I had done that and then I went to meet the surgeon on the next day.
Jennifer Hunter:Took the painting into the, to the appointment.
Jennifer Hunter:So it was up on the chair and he came down and looks at it.
Jennifer Hunter:Oh, what's that?
Jennifer Hunter:You know?
Jennifer Hunter:And so I, I told him, I said, well, that was my painting.
Jennifer Hunter:I said, this is what I need to be able to do.
Jennifer Hunter:I really liked that.
Jennifer Hunter:I wouldn't mind having something like that hanging in my house.
Jennifer Hunter:And I said, well, you know, You know, I said that could be arranged and everybody laughed, which is great.
Jennifer Hunter:That was a wonderful beginning when you meet a surgeon, because when you're a patient sitting there
Jennifer Hunter:and you need surgery and you're waiting for the surgeon to walk into the room,whom you have not met,
Jennifer Hunter:that's kind of anxiety producing.
Jennifer Hunter:Oh,
Catherine:absolutely.
Catherine:My gosh.
Catherine:Absolutely.
Catherine:And just getting to the doctor is anxiety.
Jennifer Hunter:Right?
Jennifer Hunter:All those five surgeons that were refusing to help me were helping me train myself in how to cope
Jennifer Hunter:with dealing with the fact that I needed surgery.
Jennifer Hunter:And one of the things I had done with for surgeon, number five, who he eventually, you
Jennifer Hunter:know, declined surgery, but I drew his picture
Jennifer Hunter:from what was on the internet about his profile.
Jennifer Hunter:So art
Catherine:therapy, exactly that's definitely art therapy.
Jennifer Hunter:Right?
Jennifer Hunter:So with that in mind, I had to go see surgeon number six.
Jennifer Hunter:It, wow.
Jennifer Hunter:So I had a strategy, I took my camera and I asked him if I could take his picture.
Jennifer Hunter:And I told him why.
Jennifer Hunter:I said, I need to be comfortable with you and I need to, like you.
Jennifer Hunter:And I like the things that I paint and draw, so that's going to help me like you.
Jennifer Hunter:So he said, sure, take a picture.
Jennifer Hunter:So I took a few and I was drawing them when I eventually did have surgery.
Catherine:So does he eventually do the surgery?
Jennifer Hunter:Oh yes, he did.
Jennifer Hunter:He did.
Jennifer Hunter:I ended up waiting, I think about five weeks before he can take me.
Jennifer Hunter:And you know, it was a relief that okay.
Jennifer Hunter:I've been validated.
Jennifer Hunter:I've now got a chance to save my palette and oh my God, I'm still going to have surgery.
Catherine:Yeah.
Catherine:Right.
Catherine:And that's scary because anything can happen during surgery.
Jennifer Hunter:Right.
Jennifer Hunter:And when it's your spinal cord and you're facing that you could be paralyzed.
Jennifer Hunter:And the thing is, it's a real hard choice to make, but I decided that I was not
Jennifer Hunter:going to allow fear to choose for me.
Jennifer Hunter:I mean, there are patients out there who are so afraid of going through spine surgery, that they
Jennifer Hunter:allow their spine injuries to progress and the problems that they have, and they become disabled.
Jennifer Hunter:I took care of my parents in wheelchairs who were disabled and I thought, wow, I have a chance.
Jennifer Hunter:How many people get to choose whether they're going to be disabled or not?
Jennifer Hunter:Sometimes you don't,
Catherine:you're bringing up some things that are very thought provoking.
Catherine:Right.
Catherine:And just hearing you say some of these things and the fact that you can tell your story
Catherine:with those positive imprints in mind will inspire others to help them make decisions.
Catherine:We only have one chance in life, you know, we're only on one, one journey, that's it!
Catherine:And so those decisions are very difficult.
Catherine:And I know you used art therapy, but you also mentioned you used music.
Catherine:And so what kind of music therapy did you use?
Jennifer Hunter:Well, I did, that was back at the beginning of all of this.
Jennifer Hunter:And fear
Catherine:had to have been pretty high at that point.
Jennifer Hunter:Yes.
Jennifer Hunter:I would wake up in the morning, remember, oh, I need spine surgery.
Jennifer Hunter:My blood pressure would shoot way up.
Jennifer Hunter:Well, I started taking my blood pressure to get the number.
Jennifer Hunter:I started listening to music.
Jennifer Hunter:And doing deep, relaxed breathing.
Jennifer Hunter:And I have a good friend who you've interviewed before his name's Mack Bailey.
Jennifer Hunter:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Hunter:He is a music therapist..
Catherine:Yes, he is a very good one too.
Catherine:So you turn to him for some
Jennifer Hunter:therapy.
Jennifer Hunter:I turned to him for a little bit of advice.
Jennifer Hunter:I said, well, this is what I'm doing.
Jennifer Hunter:You know, what else can I do?
Jennifer Hunter:And he said, you're on the right track.
Jennifer Hunter:But the tip he gave me was to time my breathing to the music that I was listening to.
Jennifer Hunter:If you're tapping your foot, it's got a natural kind of rhythm and it kinda just works out.
Jennifer Hunter:Or if you're singing in a choir, there's a natural place when you have to take a breath
Jennifer Hunter:before you continue to sing, those are all things that are deep breathing set to music that
Jennifer Hunter:helps you relax and lowers your blood pressure.
Jennifer Hunter:So I did that daily and it was working and I was still asking myself hard questions as to why
Jennifer Hunter:I have the fears and what was provoking those from way back in my past from when I was a kid.
Jennifer Hunter:And for everybody, that's going to be a different answer, right.
Jennifer Hunter:Because we have different reasons why we're afraid of things, but I started building on it that way.
Jennifer Hunter:So I was doing this deep breathing, the music, and then I thought, okay, I
Jennifer Hunter:can associate an image with that music.
Jennifer Hunter:That's
Catherine:very good
Jennifer Hunter:therapy.
Jennifer Hunter:Absolutely.
Jennifer Hunter:Yeah.
Jennifer Hunter:Wow.
Jennifer Hunter:Things anybody can do.
Catherine:They are.
Catherine:And, uh, yeah, anybody can, and it's, what's hard I think Jennifer for people is to get
Catherine:that frame of mind in place to do those things, because fear, you said that you're not going
Catherine:to let fear overtake you or control you.
Catherine:And oftentimes that's how we live.
Catherine:We live because fear moves us to do something that we don't want to do, but it also...
Catherine:fear puts a stopper on that frame of mind.
Catherine:And so how do you get into the frame of mind?
Catherine:How could you put yourself in that frame of mind by pushing that fear aside?
Jennifer Hunter:Well, my choice was faced with fear and have the surgery, or
Jennifer Hunter:don't face it and become disabled and lose
Jennifer Hunter:the ability to artwork
Catherine:So it was putting the two in perspective,
Jennifer Hunter:right.
Jennifer Hunter:And my artwork.
Jennifer Hunter:The, the ability to do that is who I am.
Jennifer Hunter:And I love that, the most, about my life.
Jennifer Hunter:So I still would be an okay person if I lost that.
Jennifer Hunter:Yeah, that would be a disability to me.
Jennifer Hunter:And I would have been more disabled than just losing the coordination of my arms.
Jennifer Hunter:So there would have been problems walking.
Jennifer Hunter:There would have been a wheelchair in my future.
Jennifer Hunter:I would have lived in constant pain, constant headaches, dizziness at risk for falls, at risk for
Jennifer Hunter:paralysis, particularly if you were in a car and there was another car accident and you've already have a
Jennifer Hunter:spine where everything is compressed on it, you jar that or move that you're looking at some real damage.
Jennifer Hunter:So that was my choice.
Jennifer Hunter:So there's really only one choice there.
Jennifer Hunter:Right?
Catherine:Right.
Catherine:Wow.
Catherine:And knowing that the outcome might still be that you can't paint any longer,
Jennifer Hunter:but at the time I have another good friend in Chicago and people in Chicago will know
Jennifer Hunter:his name because he is the singer for the Cubs.
Jennifer Hunter:He sings the national Anthem and his name is Wayne Messmer and he faced some really
Jennifer Hunter:incredible fears about 20 years ago, give or take, I don't remember the exact date, but in a
Jennifer Hunter:robbery attempt, he was shot through the throat.
Jennifer Hunter:Oh my gosh.
Jennifer Hunter:And he made a miraculous comeback and they thought he might never speak again, but not
Jennifer Hunter:only did he speak, he regained his singing voice and went right back to that career he loved.
Jennifer Hunter:So I knew Wayne.
Jennifer Hunter:I, I didn't know that I had been a part of his recovery from that until I read his book.
Jennifer Hunter:I knew that he knew something about this and I thought, okay, I'm going to ask Wayne.
Jennifer Hunter:And I reached out to him in an email and he wrote back to me and said, my dear,
Jennifer Hunter:Jennifer, you're too good to lose your talent.
Jennifer Hunter:And if doing the surgery is something you must do to save your talent, then you should go for it.
Jennifer Hunter:And he said, I was sitting here just the other day, having lunch with, oh gosh.
Jennifer Hunter:And the name went out of my head, the guy who had elbow surgery, baseball player to save his ability to pitch.
Jennifer Hunter:He was losing that.
Jennifer Hunter:And they, this was the first time that surgery was done.
Jennifer Hunter:He was having lunch with that guy just the other day.
Jennifer Hunter:And he said, you reaching out to me and me having lunch with him was not a coincidence.
Jennifer Hunter:He said that there was a reason for that.
Jennifer Hunter:So somehow he got the vibes or the energy somewhere through knowing me.
Jennifer Hunter:And he gave me great advice and said, you can do this and basically go for it.
Jennifer Hunter:But you can either go through something and just kind of.
Jennifer Hunter:I don't know, let it affect you.
Jennifer Hunter:feel like you're adrift or you can embrace it.
Jennifer Hunter:And I feel like when you embrace something, you help direct your healing.
Jennifer Hunter:So you have to go into these situations believing you're going to come out victorious
Jennifer Hunter:and that you're going to have a recovery.
Jennifer Hunter:And if you play your cards right, then you find the right surgeons who are the very skilled surgeons.
Jennifer Hunter:And you find you get into it far enough that they understand in detail what the
Jennifer Hunter:issue is that they're trying to fix.
Jennifer Hunter:You've got a much better chance of that great recovery that's enough.
Jennifer Hunter:Yes.
Jennifer Hunter:That's really what I did and goingto Mayo.
Jennifer Hunter:So
Catherine:you got that help that you needed.
Jennifer Hunter:Exactly.
Jennifer Hunter:We had a great team and I looked at myself as part of the surgical team.
Jennifer Hunter:I'm as much a part of this team as they are, and they can't do it without me.
Jennifer Hunter:Right.
Jennifer Hunter:So that's how I looked at it.
Catherine:So you have such a wonderful attitude towards all of this and just a great way to help
Catherine:people walk their own path into the operating room.
Jennifer Hunter:And so I went through the surgery and it was before we went to surgery, it was very important
Jennifer Hunter:for me to express my gratitude to the surgeon.
Jennifer Hunter:I asked him to come see me beforehand.
Jennifer Hunter:And he did, and I held his hand.
Jennifer Hunter:I looked right in his eyes and I said, thank you, but your hands are going to save my hands today.
Jennifer Hunter:And I really appreciate that.
Jennifer Hunter:So that's how we went into surgery, you know, with that in my heart.
Jennifer Hunter:Him knowing he's appreciated him feeling good.
Jennifer Hunter:Right.
Jennifer Hunter:Because I think that helps you have a better outcome too.
Jennifer Hunter:They're professionals, but everybody needs recognition.
Jennifer Hunter:Everybody needs to be appreciated.
Catherine:That's true.
Catherine:And they know that they're under pressure, but you're right.
Catherine:And they do need that recognition.
Catherine:My husband and I, we always bring in like spatulas that say something on it and give them, or some
Catherine:other cooking thing because they probably cook.
Catherine:Yeah.I'm not a painter, , so,
Jennifer Hunter:okay.
Jennifer Hunter:But then, so I had the surgery and it wasn't nearly as bad as I had imagined it
Jennifer Hunter:would be, you know, so any good surgeon.
Jennifer Hunter:I had an excellent surgeon and yes, you're going to have some pain.
Jennifer Hunter:You're going to have some discomfort.
Jennifer Hunter:My neck was actually weak at the time.
Jennifer Hunter:I had worn , a neck brace for three months because I didn't want hardware placed on my spine.
Jennifer Hunter:And the surgeon agreed that I could have a fusion with no hardware.
Jennifer Hunter:If I stayed in the neck brace until it fused.
Jennifer Hunter:Oh,
Catherine:my gosh, that gives me weebie geebies
Jennifer Hunter:bone graft.
Jennifer Hunter:Yeah.
Jennifer Hunter:Oh,
Catherine:wow.
Jennifer Hunter:Wow.
Jennifer Hunter:Yeah.
Jennifer Hunter:And then that's a decision you make too.
Jennifer Hunter:Cause there's a lot of people who can't stand the neck brace.
Jennifer Hunter:Can't stand to be confined.
Jennifer Hunter:As human beings as soon as somebody tells us, you have to be confined the first thing
Jennifer Hunter:we want to do is break out right here right now because we're quarantining a home.
Jennifer Hunter:Right.
Jennifer Hunter:You had to stay home.
Jennifer Hunter:You'd be happy at home, right?
Jennifer Hunter:Yeah.
Catherine:Yeah, you're delightful.
Catherine:And you're so remarkable with what you've been through, but it's, but the attitude and what you take from
Catherine:it, but also what you give back from your experiences
Jennifer Hunter:on Mayo clinic connect.
Jennifer Hunter:And that's a patient forum on Mayo clinic where.
Jennifer Hunter:Patients can talk to each other, you know, and there's a core of patients who been
Jennifer Hunter:Mayo patients, but anybody can go on there.
Jennifer Hunter:You don't need to be a male patient and you can start your own discussion topic.
Jennifer Hunter:Or there's a lot of ones on there and it's moderated, there's a director and moderator.
Jennifer Hunter:So it's a safe place to talk about stuff.
Jennifer Hunter:You don't have to give your real name, but we can all learn.
Jennifer Hunter:And patients certainly learn from each other's experience.
Jennifer Hunter:So I've been able to share my experience.
Jennifer Hunter:Uh, of spine surgery, what I learned, uh, as well as everything else, I have my biology background and
Jennifer Hunter:I've learned a lot as an advocate for my my parents.
Jennifer Hunter:So those are the things I try to teach people to, to first of all, explain something they
Jennifer Hunter:don't understand about medical problems.
Jennifer Hunter:Not that I'm a doctor or an expert, and to teach patients how to face their fear.
Jennifer Hunter:Cause a lot of people facing surgery or medical.
Jennifer Hunter:Problem are fearful.
Jennifer Hunter:So to help them cope with it, and also the teach them how to advocate, because if you
Jennifer Hunter:don't know how to advocate for yourself, you're kind of like a boat adrift out there
Jennifer Hunter:and if you're not in front of the right doctor who takes you in and says, Hey, you know, this is
Jennifer Hunter:what you need . You know, give you a direction.
Jennifer Hunter:You may never get the answers that you need.
Jennifer Hunter:So, you know, and this is part of our power that we have as patients.
Jennifer Hunter:If we do this right, to advocate, and I'm not talking about harassing doctors, I'm
Jennifer Hunter:talking about asking intelligent questions.
Jennifer Hunter:If you know enough about a subject to ask an intelligent question of doctor, they can think about
Jennifer Hunter:what your future would be and how you might alter that.
Jennifer Hunter:And it's something that doctors don't always have time for because they're so busy in the
Jennifer Hunter:short amount of time they see you in the office.
Jennifer Hunter:Things don't always come up and sometimes they're just trying to ease your pain with
Jennifer Hunter:medication or ease your symptoms rather than ask the questions of why is that happening?
Jennifer Hunter:And is there another choice, another way that you could prevent that?
Jennifer Hunter:So that's kind of what I do,
Catherine:Jennifer.
Catherine:There's no better person than to do that.
Catherine:I'm so glad you're doing that for the patients there at Mayo and I'm sure Mayo clinic is just thrilled to
Catherine:have you as a volunteer, working with the patients.
Catherine:Well, thank you so much for doing that.
Catherine:During
Jennifer Hunter:my rehab.
Jennifer Hunter:I had to wonder, can I still do it right?
Jennifer Hunter:Am I going to get my talent back?
Jennifer Hunter:I, you know, I had lost a lot of muscle.
Jennifer Hunter:My arms were weak and I was going through rehab.
Jennifer Hunter:It took a lot to get that back.
Jennifer Hunter:So I wanted more than anything to do a painting of my surgeon.
Jennifer Hunter:Oh wow.
Jennifer Hunter:As a gift for a couple of reasons.
Jennifer Hunter:Okay.
Jennifer Hunter:I, you know, when somebody rescues you when you can't rescue yourself, right.
Jennifer Hunter:And somebody comes to your rescue after so many others refused, you have extreme gratitude for that person.
Jennifer Hunter:So that's the first thing.
Jennifer Hunter:And he was a humble guy.
Jennifer Hunter:It's not something he ever would have expected or asked for.
Jennifer Hunter:And I also had to prove to myself that I could do it.
Jennifer Hunter:You set that goal, there's a mountain.
Jennifer Hunter:You're going to go climb it, to see if you can do it to prove you can do it.
Jennifer Hunter:And so that was my first painting.
Jennifer Hunter:Post-op for my spine surgery was his painting.
Jennifer Hunter:He's in front of a historic building at Mayo clinic with all the carved figures on the doors.
Jennifer Hunter:That building actually represents the history of Mayo clinic in all the figures that are on those doors.
Jennifer Hunter:That's named after one of their doctors from back in history, Dr.
Jennifer Hunter:Henry Stanley Plummer and you know, there's even initials carved in that door like CM
Jennifer Hunter:for Charlie Mayo, Charlie, and Will Mayo were the sons of the original doctorMayo.
Jennifer Hunter:They became doctors, you know, they're what brought Mayo clinic forward to what it is today
Jennifer Hunter:and created it as a very successful entity.
Jennifer Hunter:So that history is there.
Jennifer Hunter:And then my surgeon at Mayo, who's Dr.
Jennifer Hunter:Jeremy Fogelson, he trained at Mayo.
Jennifer Hunter:He did his neurosurgical surgical training at Mayo, and he also teaches there.
Jennifer Hunter:So I thought the best way to represent that is to put him literally in front of those historic doors.
Catherine:They're absolutely amazing.
Catherine:The detail that you have,
Jennifer Hunter:and then it set a nice stage color-wise because he's in blue scrubs and
Jennifer Hunter:his white lab coat, and then you have all that beautiful bronze color in the background.
Jennifer Hunter:I showed up with my camera.
Jennifer Hunter:And asked him if I could do this.
Jennifer Hunter:And he was like, well, all right, but if it's too much, you don't have to do it.
Jennifer Hunter:And so I started taking some pictures and here's the really funny part.
Jennifer Hunter:He started strutting around the room, like a model,
Jennifer Hunter:I couldn't stop laughing but that's the kind of guy down to earth and funny, and just a regular guy.
Jennifer Hunter:Right, right.
Jennifer Hunter:I see, it helps me to think of people as humans and not as surgeons.
Jennifer Hunter:Sure.
Jennifer Hunter:And we ha we had a great connection.
Jennifer Hunter:When I came back to my one-year followup at Mayo, I had this painting, unfortunately,
Jennifer Hunter:the frame had been damaged in shipping.
Jennifer Hunter:So I'm going to see the surgeon with his portrait, right.
Jennifer Hunter:Hidden behind a curtain so that we can have a big unveiling.
Jennifer Hunter:And so we got through the medical part of my appointment first, and then we
Jennifer Hunter:unveiled it and the look on his face.
Jennifer Hunter:You know, he was like a kid at Christmas, so big that his eyes got real squinty and he had dimples.
Jennifer Hunter:Looking at it and smiling and posing with it and looking
Catherine:at, so, yeah, Jennifer, you have an amazing story and your doctors' positive imprints really have.
Catherine:Uh, been an inspiration for you as well within your own life.
Catherine:So those positive imprints just go round andMack bailey had those positive imprints with you.
Catherine:And so it's just, uh, it's just amazing.
Catherine:So I, with the lost and found painting, which I guess you were never lost.
Catherine:I want to move on to that because it's another incredible title and it's another one of your Western
Catherine:american history type paintings, and it's kind of a, heart-wrenching emotional painting.
Catherine:What's the story behind this.
Catherine:And if you could kind of describe what is in the painting.
Catherine:Okay.
Jennifer Hunter:That's an oil painting and that's also Chief David Bald Eagle and
Jennifer Hunter:the woman in the painting is his daughter.
Jennifer Hunter:And that is their story.
Jennifer Hunter:As a young child as a toddler.
Jennifer Hunter:Her mother gave her up for adoption.
Jennifer Hunter:So they're born on the reservation and then there are problems on the reservation with
Jennifer Hunter:poverty and all kinds of social issues.
Jennifer Hunter:So I think a lot of Indian children have been given up for adoption for that reason.
Jennifer Hunter:And she was, I think, close to three.
Jennifer Hunter:She told me her story one day.
Jennifer Hunter:She had been given up for adoption and had been adopted out to a family and had not been treated well.
Jennifer Hunter:They forced her to cut her hair.
Jennifer Hunter:If you're native American and someone forces you to do that and just tries to turn you into something
Jennifer Hunter:that you're not, that really hurts you very deeply.
Jennifer Hunter:And so she grew up not even knowing who her father was.
Jennifer Hunter:And as an adult, she started looking for her birth parents and she found out her mother had passed, but
Jennifer Hunter:she found out that David bald Eagle was her father.
Jennifer Hunter:And I think at the time he was not a chief.
Jennifer Hunter:He had not been picked to be a chief, but she reconnected with him and together they would
Jennifer Hunter:go to schools and give talks and educate.
Jennifer Hunter:You know, grade school children.
Jennifer Hunter:So she is a good friend of mine.
Jennifer Hunter:And when she told me that story around the fire, in the teepee, she was crying, I was crying.
Jennifer Hunter:We came out of that teepee and I hugged her and I said, I'll be your sister.
Jennifer Hunter:So
Catherine:that's sweet Jennifer.
Jennifer Hunter:So we call each other sister, even though there was no blood
Jennifer Hunter:relationship, but she was a lost person.
Jennifer Hunter:And she found her father.
Jennifer Hunter:And so there's that aspect of that painting.
Jennifer Hunter:But at the same time, her father is very aged and is slowly slipping away.
Jennifer Hunter:And so it's trying to hold onto that connection between the generations.
Jennifer Hunter:So that's her story.
Jennifer Hunter:I know a lot of people can relate to that, even if you're not adopted there's many
Jennifer Hunter:times that you can feel lost for some reason.
Catherine:Yes.
Catherine:Well, this painting is absolutely beautiful and it really captures the emotion completely.
Catherine:Oh wow.
Catherine:It does.
Catherine:What a nice job, Jennifer, in being set in, continuing with your sensitivity, of course, and, but
Catherine:capturing those emotional parts so that when people do look at that, they may not know the story, but
Catherine:they see the pain, but they also see something more in that picture.
Catherine:And like you said, you can look at something and you get lost in it.
Catherine:And so we can get lost in our own story that we would want to tell with regard to
Catherine:what you have provided with your brush.
Jennifer Hunter:And then I started a website.
Jennifer Hunter:There's actually two, the one that is my fine art is Jenniferhunter.co so C like Colorado
Jennifer Hunter:and the website for the inspirational stories
Jennifer Hunter:like what we've been talking about today that have to do with overcoming fears and adversity in life.
Jennifer Hunter:And that's called artforhopeandhealing.com.
Jennifer Hunter:And can
Catherine:anybody, uh, submit their stories?
Jennifer Hunter:I'd love to hear from people it's not limited to, you have to be an artist to have a story.
Catherine:So, Jennifer, I always like to end the show with some last inspiring words and I
Catherine:know you're going to have something so wonderful.
Catherine:Jennifer
Jennifer Hunter:At the time I was going through all this fear and four months of
Jennifer Hunter:waking up every day and having a panic attack.
Jennifer Hunter:That was when I asked myself the question.
Jennifer Hunter:Why am I doing this to myself?
Jennifer Hunter:So I started asking myself those kinds of questions.
Jennifer Hunter:And then I realized I had within myself the skills and the ability to figure things out.
Jennifer Hunter:That's something that I feel like anyone can do if they just get themselves quiet
Jennifer Hunter:enough to listen to their inner voice.
Jennifer Hunter:So that inner voice is there to guide you.
Jennifer Hunter:To help you through the tough time to bring you joy at times, to creativity, all that stuff.
Jennifer Hunter:That brings you, such a joy and a connectedness in your life that you just, I know it's hard to describe what
Jennifer Hunter:that is, but that gives you such a good feeling about living and all the things that we as human beings do.
Jennifer Hunter:And I kind of feel like.
Jennifer Hunter:If all of us individually could connect to our inner voice together as a society and a people and a
Jennifer Hunter:nation, we can really accomplish a lot of good things.
Jennifer Hunter:If we could tap into that creativity and the value that we have, but we have to see
Jennifer Hunter:the value within ourselves before we can go out and see the value every place else.
Jennifer Hunter:We all are walking a different path through life.
Jennifer Hunter:We have different experiences and you learn different things.
Jennifer Hunter:So we come with our own story and we've learned something.
Jennifer Hunter:So by telling these stories and hearing someone else's perspective, we can learn an awful lot.
Jennifer Hunter:And that might benefit me when I hear somebody else's story about how they did
Jennifer Hunter:something and what gave them meaning.
Jennifer Hunter:And you never know where that's going to come from.
Jennifer Hunter:As much as there is pain, there's beauty,
Catherine:Jennifer, you are so amazing with your positive imprints and you are certainly a
Catherine:voice for those who are not only long gone, but a voice and a storyteller for those of today.
Catherine:Jennifer Hunter, you heal from everything with how you are embracing it and your positive attitude.
Catherine:And I thank you so much for the positive imprints that you are providing to everybody.
Catherine:Thank you, Jennifer.
Catherine:Thank you.
Catherine:Catherine Your positive imprint.
Fabulous interview. I’m so glad she had her surgery and I appreciate her marvelous positive beliefs and practices. Thanks for interviewing her.
Terry T,
Thank you for listening and for your comment. I’m thrilled you enjoyed this episode and that you are inspired by Jennifer Hunter’s positive imprints. I know I certainly am. Her words are special. Thank you again! Catherine, host of the show.
This was a wonderful podcast. Jennifer is so authentic and genuine. She has a wealth of knowledge about the human body. She also has fears and worries just like many of us. I think it is amazing that Jennifer studied biology so she would know as much about the body as her clinicians, Thanks for letting others benefit from the sharing.
Chris, Thank you for listening and sending in your comment. I’m so glad you enjoyed this episode with Jennifer Hunter. Sharing her positive imprints has been an inspiring journey for me as well and I am so happy to be able to share her positive imprints and the many others on my show. Safe journeys. Catherine, host of the podcast.